First something light, but still related to my post:
Now to be more serious:
I thought it only appropriate to start my first serious blog post with with the book that got me interested with violence and war almost a year and a half ago: "Among the Thugs" by Bill Buford. Now, this books is more a study of crowd psychology, but its is a valid starting point for anyone interested in violence for multiple reasons. First, as I stated in one of my comments, violence and honor have gone hand in hand since the dawn of man. Another reason is that you could say violence occurs when two factions, or crowds, dispute something that may be important to them, but not important to the majority of the world's population. This book deals with that conjecture amazingly. Maybe the most important reason is that it's just a really good read, and not too scientific. I digress from my point.
The book is a study of violence that occurs between the fans of opposing soccer teams in Europe over an 8 year period. All the while, the author records the passionate emotions of the men he followed, and the events he witnessed in stunning detail. He meets racists and nationalists along the way who try to use the fervor of the soccer crowds for their own agenda's and fail. He meets Italians, or "I-ties," and other Brits along the way who could turn on him at any moment depending on his "team." What's really interesting is that the author originally intended to observe, but eventually gets pulled into the violence himself, and finally embraces it. In doing so, one sees the amazing progression from the civilized man he thought he was to leader of an unruly mob, bent on the destruction and "capture" of Italy.
His conclusion?
"I was surprised by what I found; moreover, because I came away with a knowledge that I had not possessed before, I was also grateful, and surprised by that as well. I had not expected the violence to be so pleasurable....This is, if you like, the answer to the hundred-dollar question: why do young males riot every Saturday? They do it for the same reason that another generation drank too much, or smoked dope, or took hallucinogenic drugs, or behaved badly or rebelliously. Violence is their antisocial kick, their mind-altering experience, an adrenaline-induced euphoria that might be all the more powerful because it is generated by the body itself, with, I was convinced, many of the same addictive qualities that characterize synthetically produced drugs. "
The question?
Can his findings be generalized to the whole populace, and indeed, the history of man itself? People will say that violence occurs for many reasons, but can this truly be one of them? An anti-social kick?
Before you condemn this whole study as folly, think of life in general. There are often times when people choose sides, and violence will occur. Like the study, this often happens with sports. Passions will be inflamed when one person's side loses, wins, or is badmouthed. Violence can occur for no other reason than you grew up watching a team. Now extrapolate this to a bigger arena. Nationality, religion, the amount of sides we can choose in life are endless and make us the unique people we are. But this also mean that violence is necessarily part of who we are, no matter how we may try to suppress it?
Well, that's just depressing...I think I need some of that Habiro Happy Cola.
25 comments:
second video looked like something from the french-indian war
where the hell were the cops!!
The question we should all be asking ourselves is why violence interests you so much, Bobert. Is it that deep beneath your huggable facade lies a volcano waiting... or wanting...to explode? It seems to me as if you wish to live vicariously through these stories of vicious attacks and uncalled for violence. But what one must realize is that before you can truly begin to dissect violence for all of its gore and glory, you need to take a few steps back and examine yourself . For once you have understood what about violence moves you, will you develop a deeper understanding and appreciation for it.
It would be lovely if you could make entries about your self discovery, and personal experiences instead of quoting others. By no means am I suggesting that you go commit acts of violence! Remember that acts of violence need not to have occurred for feelings of violence to have taken place.
With that said, I wish you the best of luck on your path to self-discovery!
zzzz...
joey!
there is absolutely no way that that someone can be a vegeterian and a novelist at the same time!
you know that! and i know that!
more seriously..
as for what was the main topic of bobby's blog? come on you can't be serious joey...
Joey, perhaps your writings are vexing to us all and we have no idea what YOU are trying to say. This brings me back to why communication is so important.
You ignored my comment to Bobby, which if you would have read could have saved you such a long winded... reaction. I established that the message he is trying to convey is not very clear, and that perhaps this is because he is not sure what about violence draws him in. Of course.. instead of questions I proposed solutions.
I think that the best thing for us all to do is to support Bobert and help him reflect and understand.
first of all, bobby is not addicted to violence
second of all, i really don't know what i want to say but that where the hell is bobby? this is his entry and i really want to hear what he has to say
third of all, i really don't like how every time i click on comments it takes me away from the main page.. this must be fixed... anyone know java?
We don't know what armchair psychology is...
i have completely forgotten what bobby's original post was about.. time to reread
ok so after rereading bobby's post... I am leaning towards saying that bobby's post (except for the last serious paragraph) is a summary of Buford's book -- which explains bobby's choice for the title of his blog entry
Ahh.. I see. And is war your field? Or..would that be politics?
First of all, as to where I am, I am enjoying my damned vacation instead of arguing with you all on a blog all day!
As for joey's comments, first I am going to be blunt. Joey, that sounded very much as though you were A) trying to be a high and mighty blogging ass and B) trying to get me to write a 20 page paper on this book.
Now, I thought a blog was used to introduce a topic and get people thinking about it. I didn't draw a conclusion, or much of one, because I wanted to hear what you all would say. Obviously, my two co-authors missed what Nelsa understood. I am A) introducing people to how I first got my interest in the study of violence B) recommending the book C) Asking what you think of Buford's conclusion or just how you feel about violence in general.
Again, I apologize for not making this 100 pages long, but it wasn't my intention to do all the things joey suggested. Furthermore, if my writing style is going to be critiqued instead of my topics inspiring thought, you will not see me write on this blog again.
p.s. I mean all this in the nicest way possible. Back to vacation, and Sama, have fun with Sudanese independence day.
Alright, what compelled me to write all that wasn't trying to make myself feel smart. If you just want to dismiss what I said and not talk about it, then fine, we'll move on. Please, don't call me names over it. That's not cool.
What I was trying to say, in way too many words, was that Buford's quote wasn't (to me anyway) anything particularly special, aside from being well-written. It's not awe-inspiring or some huge epiphany, it's basic biology.
The first comment was meant to garner some response from you... basically it deals with two aspects of violence, the physiological response that goes with it and identity issues. I presented my points of view on both. These are somewhat heavy subjects, but isn't the point to talk about them? I wanted to see your take on it.
I said on my first entry that we all nurture ideas that don't hold up to any rational questioning. When I post something, I put it there knowing it'll get questioned (see how Sama and Nelsa made me feel dumb on my first blog entry...). But I do it anyway because it makes me see my mistakes
It's not meant to be an attack on you, man. Again, I'm sorry if I was a bit confused about your post.
That said, this'll probably be my last blog entry/comment for a while. Enjoy your vacations.
Joe
Well...
i have to give bobby the prize for best entry thus far because it has gotten (1) the most attention, (2) the most comments, (3) the most heat and discussion on it.
it is sad that joey said he will not post/comment again because i really did feel that bobby started a good discussion on a topic i have very little knowledge in. That is why, you noticed, my comments had nothing to do with the information bobby gave us. I am not an expert in violence but at least bobby and joey both read a book on it (not to mention taken W's class).
Bobby, i can assure you that joey wasn't being a prick. True, this is our vacation but blogging doesn't take much time and it's something we can all do. Just like the hundred emails we send out daily lol
I, personally, have gotten a lot out of the "Among the Thugs" entry and it's follow up comments. Both Nelsa and Joey have been very enlightening.
Please, no one should feel offended, attacked, or pressured in this information safety zone...
:(
Well, let me first say I wrote me response after learning my systems grade and seeing what it did to my GPA.
Second, I apologize for name calling.
That being said, this too will be my last post for a while. It's time for me to get back to SAC work anyway.
This is meant to be an enjoyable thing... not to be taken so seriously. The fact of the matter is that all four of you focus on completely different topics, and see things in a different light. The purpose of this blog is to get you all to think deeply about something that is important to YOU.
I really need to emphasize that the way we communicate our thoughts has a tremendous effect on the outcome. Only you know exactly what you mean by what you say. To be a competent communicator, clarity is key. While Joey may not have meant to attack, it came off as just that. While Bobby knows that Joey would never deliberately attack his thoughts with the intention of sounding high and mighty, his judgment was blurred by the devil called Systems. That..is called external noise. An outside factor that changed the way Bobby dealt with Joey's seemingly harmless comments.
This is just a blog. It should be 1) entertaining 2) easy to write 3) get everyone to think about things in new ways.
Since all of you are friends, I had hoped that you would support each other and offer advice. It's a blog.
Just a blog.
Not written to be published. Not written for a dissertation. And should never be critiqued. Discussed..yes. Critiqued..no.
The line is thin... but it must be defined. Instead of feeling badly about the aftermath of Bobby's entry, we should all embrace it and learn from it.
So what have we learned? Truly?
Violence interests Bobby and we have no idea why. But we sure hope to find out...lest he goes on a killing spree one day from keeping it all in.
Some of these comments have been very structured and in my opinion difficult to understand. A critique is lengthy...very detailed..and not appropriate for a blog. A comment would perhaps be more of a reaction to what has been written. My suggestion would be to read through what you have written before posting and ask yourself.. is it a critique or is it a comment? And imagine that this would be something being put up against your piece.
I think the heavy spices should be left for the kitchen... I am guilty of this myself..and so I do apologize if I was sassy at some point. But we learn from our offenses and try to avoid them in the future.
Now.. I think someone should write a piece entitled "Keep on Keepin' on".
Vive la blog!
sigh
I know why you sigh, Osama.
I guess it's time to finally post a proper response to this (as much as we'd all like to put this behind us!).
It's unfortunate that Bobby's good post came to this. My own first comment, which I regretfully deleted some time ago, was a sincere response to his post! But it wasn't taken that way, because of a combination of factors--including poor word choice on my part, unfortunately.
Moreover, I regret letting it go that far with Nelsa. I should have let it go. Sorry, Nel.
I think it took me a little longer to get over this than the rest of you. I know I haven't been showing it at all, but this whole thing... really got to me.
Now let's see if I stop neglecting the blog from now on. And don't expect me to get this personal again. It's not my style, you guys know that.
glad to hear this joester... i also hope we can somehow set up a system between us four so that the blog isn't neglected at all. we actually have a decent group of readers and i'd hate to disappoint them so early on...
talk tomorrow in lab?
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